(saga.li) open source hero dice game

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snowdrop
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(saga.li) open source hero dice game

Post by snowdrop » Fri Jul 22, 2016 16:16

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Greets.

To get my mind of things during the summer and get some perspective to the WTactics ORC I created a small dice game for fun in a couple of days. New experience, a challenge. I discovered a great dice game on Steam called "Tharsis", that was a solo-player survival game, fully playable on a table, and thought "Hrm.. I have some ideas...."

Saga is way more casual than a CCG, normal 6-sided dice based, and all you need is the heroes below, the rules and dice to play it. It should scale well from 1vs1 to 2vs2 ands 3vs3, or teams.

The theme is hero vs hero combat, upgrading hero, buying items, kicking ass. That's all. I tried to keep it casual yet enough nerdy for myself to like it. It's open source and all it's resources, rules and the game in itself can be found on the site.

www_ Saga.li
contact_ snowdrop@saga.li



Two of the first heroes

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Roadmap
- Playtest these two more using skype/discord and create two more for a 2vs2 game.
- Playtesting this far (just 5 games) have been very giving and easy to understand/adjust compared with a CCG. ;)
- Fine tune rules and stats.
- Not much beyond that - main focus is on WT, can't invest time in two projects. =)
- Over time, to end up with 6 - 8 heroes balanced if there's interest.
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snowdrop
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Re: (saga.li) open source hero dice game

Post by snowdrop » Wed Jul 27, 2016 08:47

ngoeminne
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Re: (saga.li) open source hero dice game

Post by ngoeminne » Sat Nov 05, 2016 15:05

Hi snowdrop,

It took me a while, but I finally got the time to check out the saga.li rules and how it works.
Very very nice work indeed. The basics are quite simple, and 'dev' wise you have only to worry about one hero at a time, what would make that you could actually make the hero's by hand.

I'm not sure how the gameplay would feel. If it's balanced between dice roll and making decisions it would be good. If it leans to dice roll online and counting, it would be bad. (don't like endless dice rolls)

Limiting the resources to action points and energy points is good. No more is needed.

The rules were clear and the combat tactics (attack/defense) are solid. The bonus things give a nice twist, but maybe they are not needed. The only thing I don't like to much is the shop keeper's setup.
I do like the idea, but maybe the shopkeeper should/could be shared. A separate card with the abilities listed. So both hero's could go after the same equipment (only one could get it though).
Unfortunately, that would mean an extra card on the table, so maybe the idea is not valid.

Get out three more hero's and release the game. Don't wait for anything :-)
Excellent work!

Kind regards,
Nico
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Re: (saga.li) open source hero dice game

Post by snowdrop » Sat Nov 05, 2016 23:37

ngoeminne wrote:It took me a while, but I finally got the time to check out the saga.li rules and how it works.

Very very nice work indeed.
Thanks for taking the time to read it through. Give it a play when you have the time, it's just 2-3 papers in total that can be printed in black and white, and dice. I'm happy for suggestions for new mechanics or heroes as well. = P

The basics are quite simple, and 'dev' wise you have only to worry about one hero at a time,
Yeah, it's miles from creating a ccg ;) Creating one hero at a time is the safest way to do it once you establish reference points, and those are around - the two heroes that already exist. They are pretty balanced and can work as a "template" for power balancing. I haven't done any math yet though, it's not so meaningful either to be honest as the effects can't easily be understood and translated into a "dev formula for new hero composition", although I am going to give it a try...

I'm not sure how the gameplay would feel. If it's balanced between dice roll and making decisions it would be good. If it leans to dice roll online and counting, it would be bad. (don't like endless dice rolls)
Game was made to be playable on kitchen table, first and foremost. It won't have anything in it that can't easily be done on a real table.

Agree on wishing a balance between dice and decision: I don't want sa "luck" game to that extent. It should be about risk and reward management combined with knowledge of when to play a skill or not wrapped up with the AP:s.

Hence, healing and deflection etc will be rare and not huge part of the game, at least not easily available, for the reasons you mention - don't want prolonged game play due to players rolling misses every now and then + on top of that healing up all the time....
Limiting the resources to action points and energy points is good. No more is needed.
Indeed, part of it was to keep up tempo. Want it to play "fast" compared to how games like these usually tend to drag out on it.
The bonus things give a nice twist, but maybe they are not needed.
The bonus thing is something I'm fond of: As a concept it's "Ok, now you just missed out on whatever good you tried to do, most often an attack, but you still get a chance to at least achieve something that can lead to some good stuff later/now". It was about 1) psychology of the player and mitigating the feeling of failed rolls often 2) making stuff happen, so a MISS might be a miss, but it still drives the game forward in a sense, which is essential to keep tempo up and players interest, 3) it opens up some options with same attack also - sometimes you maybe even want to miss "on purpose" ; )

I'll keep the bonuses, but, I agree that they are not needed on every skill, on every hero. The range of when they trigger is also interesting to play with, allows following scenarios for when bónus triggers:

a) triggers on a complete miss
b) triggers on a hit, any one
c) triggers on a hit, but only if certain numbers are shown on dice.
d) never triggers - no bonus
e) always triggers - no bonus, part of weapon effect

It's quite flexible, in all it's simplicity.

The only thing I don't like to much is the shop keeper's setup.
I do like the idea, but maybe the shopkeeper should/could be shared. A separate card with the abilities listed. So both hero's could go after the same equipment (only one could get it though).
Unfortunately, that would mean an extra card on the table, so maybe the idea is not valid.

I'm happy you mentioned this, as I have had plenty of thoughts about how that should/could be done. One way is what you mention. Initially I opted against it simply because what I do know is easier to design and playtest around (currently shop is simply the shopkeeper offering heroes certain stuff, maybe exclusive to them, maybe not).

Currently there are only three main differences that justify the shop as a system at all in the game, from the ability system:

1) The shop items are always permanent once you acquire them.
2) Shop costs 1 AP to visit, every time you go there
3) You can't split investment (place 1 energy point on one item, and 1 energy point on another) during a shop visit - you can only invest in one item at a time in there. When it comes to abilities you may split however you want.

An option is just like you mention, to have the shop on a separate global sheet, same for all. In one way that does however seem to limit specific items that can be uniquely designed for one hero (makes no sense to have them on such a list, and all sense to have them around as it is now).

Idea: A variant
  • Each turn a player may put energy points (EP) in his/her "bank". Every hero has a given variable that tells the player his maximum of what can be saved per turn. Normally that would be 1-2 in most cases. Saving EP still costs 1 AP, regardless of how much you save. There is no max amount of EP you can save in your bank.
  • Shop is a deck of cards placed in center of table.
  • That deck is always made up of a number of items (cards) that are standard for every game, regardless of heroes.
  • Each player may, depending on hero and before the game starts, select x number of item cards and put them into the shop deck. Shuffle deck before game starts, face down.
  • Each turn the top two cards are offered for sale. When turn ends they are put on bottom. Round it goes.
  • Players that want to buy something visit the shop and pay by deducting from what they have in their bank.
  • Price on my hero specific items that I put in the shop deck is perhaps decided by having a minimum starting price, and then opening up for an auction, where the other player may outbid me.
  • You can sell back general items to shop for a third of price, but not good ones that you won on auctions.
  • (There is no rule for this yet due to only 2 heroes being around, but it would cost 1 AP for a hero to transfer one or more items to an ally hero if one is within 1 POS).

Hrm.. don't know... = P I think this kind of incorporates some of the intentions I think you might have had with your suggestion, and it adds more interaction and strategy/resource management than currently.
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