Resource System Change
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 18:56
Notice:The fFollowing is copy & paste from email convo by me and Q_x, posted without me asking for permission in an attempt to get the discussion more public and easier to reach for Ravenchild.
By Q_x to snowdrop, 26:th of July 2011:
Hey!
I've seen some work on rules you've done.
I'm curious... This is an outcome of any tests? How did it went?
I'm still thinking about feedback. I hope this is the last time I mail it.
My problem is to design the game cycle in the way, that when it's
being played, how good player is may determine how fast he develops,
but in the first place skill should determine how well he can develop
the table at all, and the difference between table of weak and strong
player in the end should be really not big - visible, but not obvious.
Following things are somewhat connected.
First mechanism makes a kind of resource suffocating - basically "you
have feel weak to play strong cards". My proposal is a rule that says
something like "you need not only pay gold cost when playing a
creature, but also shuffle faction-matching cards from RP back to the
deck in the amount equal to creature's threshold" (or to a separate
pile that will replace the deck once there will be no cards in it).
This idea of shuffling cards back is seriously the most promising
thing I've invented so far. Making threshold "a second cost" paid in
cards taken from the table to the deck should really do not only one
trick - it also makes reusing RPs content easier, this way more cards
will finally meet the table, good deck will be even more important,
and players will be able to decrease randomness that shuffled deck
introduces - with time there will be more and more cards they know of
in the deck. It may also reduce overall deck size by 20% or more.
So changing how threshold works is one idea for that, the other is
using gold cost this way, leaving threshold as it is now. This is, I
think, not as good idea, as the above - paying for cards only with
removing cards will simply make some trouble I think.
Second is - maybe we could have creatures immortal, but being defeated
make them being moved to something like "regroup zone", where to get a
creature back, you need to mark a leader (or just wait a turn, making
regroup zone basically a double-mark technique)? This will pretty much
eliminate the technique that makes quick growth the most efficient way
of dominating the table, so it will help in early game balancing and
allow shorter games to be played without any serious issues.
Finally third - paying threshold cost in gold every time a creature
attacks - this, combined with the above, will eliminate further
domination by gradual overpowering. Basically if a player wants to
play a creature onto his table, so removing some cards from a resource
pile, he will have his attacking power temporarily lowered. This, on
the other hand, helps with designing good winning strategies that will
actually take some time - no mass spawning can be done safely, no
quick winning, no big tables or big battles. You grow resources, or
you grow in power, or you fight. This will make blocking really easy
(that is if there will be many creatures in the endgame on the table,
mainly unused), but with single creature vs. single creature fights
there will be some attacks passing through. I'm not sure if 1 vs. 1
should be the only model - if not, game may easy hit a deadlock
situation (attacking side ends with some creatures marked, cards used,
so blocking side will attack in the following turn, and attacker
looses), but this has some potential, and may be quite fruity to
actually create such model - it is known, for example, from judo.
I have not been play-testing those changes. But I think that they will
help to make the resource system that needs really careful planing,
will make deck editing even more important, with less safety margin,
will develop fair early game, dynamic middle game and really
thoughtful battles in the late game. It will also hopefully reduce
deck size for a given game time when compared to what we have now.
To summarize:
cost of playing card = resources occupied & resources removed back to deck
immortal creatures (regroup zone)
occupied resources to pay for attack
<cut out private>
Cheers,
Luke
By Q_x to snowdrop, 26:th of July 2011:
Hey!
I've seen some work on rules you've done.
I'm curious... This is an outcome of any tests? How did it went?
I'm still thinking about feedback. I hope this is the last time I mail it.
My problem is to design the game cycle in the way, that when it's
being played, how good player is may determine how fast he develops,
but in the first place skill should determine how well he can develop
the table at all, and the difference between table of weak and strong
player in the end should be really not big - visible, but not obvious.
Following things are somewhat connected.
First mechanism makes a kind of resource suffocating - basically "you
have feel weak to play strong cards". My proposal is a rule that says
something like "you need not only pay gold cost when playing a
creature, but also shuffle faction-matching cards from RP back to the
deck in the amount equal to creature's threshold" (or to a separate
pile that will replace the deck once there will be no cards in it).
This idea of shuffling cards back is seriously the most promising
thing I've invented so far. Making threshold "a second cost" paid in
cards taken from the table to the deck should really do not only one
trick - it also makes reusing RPs content easier, this way more cards
will finally meet the table, good deck will be even more important,
and players will be able to decrease randomness that shuffled deck
introduces - with time there will be more and more cards they know of
in the deck. It may also reduce overall deck size by 20% or more.
So changing how threshold works is one idea for that, the other is
using gold cost this way, leaving threshold as it is now. This is, I
think, not as good idea, as the above - paying for cards only with
removing cards will simply make some trouble I think.
Second is - maybe we could have creatures immortal, but being defeated
make them being moved to something like "regroup zone", where to get a
creature back, you need to mark a leader (or just wait a turn, making
regroup zone basically a double-mark technique)? This will pretty much
eliminate the technique that makes quick growth the most efficient way
of dominating the table, so it will help in early game balancing and
allow shorter games to be played without any serious issues.
Finally third - paying threshold cost in gold every time a creature
attacks - this, combined with the above, will eliminate further
domination by gradual overpowering. Basically if a player wants to
play a creature onto his table, so removing some cards from a resource
pile, he will have his attacking power temporarily lowered. This, on
the other hand, helps with designing good winning strategies that will
actually take some time - no mass spawning can be done safely, no
quick winning, no big tables or big battles. You grow resources, or
you grow in power, or you fight. This will make blocking really easy
(that is if there will be many creatures in the endgame on the table,
mainly unused), but with single creature vs. single creature fights
there will be some attacks passing through. I'm not sure if 1 vs. 1
should be the only model - if not, game may easy hit a deadlock
situation (attacking side ends with some creatures marked, cards used,
so blocking side will attack in the following turn, and attacker
looses), but this has some potential, and may be quite fruity to
actually create such model - it is known, for example, from judo.
I have not been play-testing those changes. But I think that they will
help to make the resource system that needs really careful planing,
will make deck editing even more important, with less safety margin,
will develop fair early game, dynamic middle game and really
thoughtful battles in the late game. It will also hopefully reduce
deck size for a given game time when compared to what we have now.
To summarize:
cost of playing card = resources occupied & resources removed back to deck
immortal creatures (regroup zone)
occupied resources to pay for attack
<cut out private>
Cheers,
Luke