Web game or paperback?

[xarn]

Hi,

strange question, right?

Well, they are two totally different things, each having their merits and drawbacks.

Despite it may sound unintuitive, I think the paper version would actually be much easier to realize. Printing cards is just so much easier than writing software. Of course, you need buddies to playtest with.

If we want to go the software route, we'll have to dumb it down drastically. Simpler rules, simpler cards, more streamlined effects, etc. Perhaps drop multiplayer support altogether.

The question is now simply,which one would you prefer to focus on?

[ngoeminne]

Hi xarn,

I'd focus on the paperback, and for that matter on two pre-constructed playable 60 card decks downloadable as pdf. And a bare minimal rule set.

Whenever we develop software for customers, we start drawing sketches on paper, during a few brainstrom sessions. It helps is focus and get a general idea about what the software should do.
In fact it's our first software version, executed by the most powerful processor invented to this day, the human brain.

So definitely the paperback version

[xarn]

IMHO, it would be a mistake to assume that the paperback and the software version would be "the same". There are just too many things that are different.

Software: tracking units HP, user's mana/gold, XP points, % chances to hit/miss ... no problem
Paperback: you can't. Or it would be such a pain in the ass that it'll suck the fun out of it.

Paperback: let's make a card with following effect: "...". Done.
Software: ...hmm ...hmm ...such an effect was not planned. It'll add so much complexity, we'll have to change this and refactor that...

I think they are fundamentally different beasts and should be approached as such.

[xarn]

The only major difficulty I see is that you need to gather a small group, at the very least one buddy, in order to playtest. Do you have that?

[snowdrop]

Hi,

strange question, right?

Well, they are two totally different things, each having their merits and drawbacks.

No, it's good question. Answer is "both". Goal in the long run is to support the game both digital, playable via the net, on whatever platforms that allows it to happen in the ways we want, and paperform, where peopel can take a DIY approach to create the cards or just ordet them from a pre-fixed templates from print shops/print on demand/us/whatever works.

Just to be clear: Creating a pure digital CCG is not the goal. The goal is stated in the GDD in the wiki. It's a massive read, but intentions should be clear in it.

As you mention yourself CCG:s that are only made to exist as digital products can have a million things going on in them and all being kept track of by the computer/behind the scenes/instantly.

Creating a real paper card game is in contrast, I would argue, more challenging when it comes to the elegance of the rules and streamlining it to be as simple to remember and handle and administer, as strategically deep, and as time efficient as possible, within a set framework and parameters.

Creating a paperback CCG that is also playable online is super easy and no effort at all. That is not our challenge, as there is already open source software that lets you play any ccg already. "Convertin" a paper ccg to the online software is just a matter of creating and maintaining "modules" and releasing them to the public.

As for this project, whatever doesn't work on the common kitchen table with ease, is simply not suitable to be a part of it.

[xarn]

Answer is "both".

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

The goal is stated in the GDD in the wiki. It's a massive read, but intentions should be clear in it.

Did I mention there's too much verbosity?

Creating a real paper card game is in contrast, I would argue, more challenging

Funny how we see things differently. To me making a paper game looks by far the way-much-easier route. There is really just one hurdle to that: you need one ore more buddies "IRL" to playtest it well. That's about it. I don't think online tools would be very practical.

Creating a paperback CCG that is also playable online is super easy and no effort at all.

If it's sooooooooooooooo easy, where is the "online playable version"?

...and, just to be sure. For the digital version, you expect something where people are responsible for tapping and applying effects manually, right? Not some actual "working" game, where effects are applied automatically and you could even play with a bot, right? (because that would be a bad ass pipe dream in how rules/cards are currently conceived, even more with DIY cards)

[Peter]

Well, no matter if we make a paper version or an internet version or a local computer version or all three of them, we first need rules, right?

And I definitely think, paper version is easier. You don't even need to have graphics. You can simply cut/buy "blanco" cards and write the data with an ballpen on it. Just find a guy who likes to play games and play with him. If no one is available to play with, you could assemble two different decks and play against yourself, and you can see where the game is unbalanced/boring/funny/thrilling/etc.

[xarn]

we first need rules, right?

What about the current ones?

http://wtactics.org/wiki/index.php?title=Quick_Rules

[Peter]

we first need rules, right?

What about the current ones?

http://wtactics.org/wiki/index.php?title=Quick_Rules

I (and others) already commented on those rules, didn't we?

[ngoeminne]

Hey Peter,

And I definitely think, paper version is easier. You don't even need to have graphics. You can simply cut/buy "blanco" cards and write the data with an ballpen on it.

We can do even better than that. I've been working on a website/service to act as our card database, and in the mean while is a card-generation tool. Since cardscape is no longer operational/maintained, we are in need of something else.

More news on that over the next two months.
If you're interested in a preview, give me a nudge.

Kind regards,
Nico