Art but from who's perspective?
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 07:54
Below is a mail I just sent to Qx. Feel free to come with input, as always, with all things on forum.
Well, this is a pretty big topic as it will direct most of the art. I will dump a copy of this in the forum, because as usual, we are keeping stuff internal here. Not that I care much about everyones input, but because it doesn't really add transparency to the project.
Questions here are (and my short answers in the parenthesis):
Do all our factions perceive themselves as good or at the very least as better in some undefined sense, than the other factions? (I think yes, most do. The only exception I can think of are the Elfs to some degree.)
1. If #1 is true, should we because of that depict every faction as it perceives itself? When looking at Gains while depicted on Gaian cards, they look "good". While looking at RB on RB cards they look "good"?
2. How should a member of faction x be depicted when it is depicted on a card that belongs to faction y? Since every faction believes it's own perspective to be correct, would that mean that whatever is on that factions card should be on par with what their perspective is? If so, this means that Red Banner would look more evil and more brute whenever they're depicted by other factions cards, while being more or less "Normal" or glorified when they depict themselves. (Clearly propagandistic stuff comes to mind here, like how some people portray other groups of people in certain was because it fits their political/normative agendas)
3. When the player holds a Gaian card with an elf on it, are the odds that it depicts a haromic and happy kind looking elf? And when she holds a Shadowguild or a Red Banner creature - do they look "evil" and "semi evil"? (As it is now, I'd answer yes as well: All our undead cards look "evil" and our orc cards fall into only two catgeories: Evil looking barbaric or good / looney tunes.) Point being, now we seem to have a meta perpsective and we currently do take sides in the game: The Gaian are noble and the orcs are goofy/stupid. But that's strange, since the orcs aren't stupid - they have just been treated as they were just that by society, and also been exploited and not seen as equals to man. We have a meta perspective since our view is from "god" (we, as the players have that peperspective as we can build decks any way we want and mix fates etc in the decks). Our meta perspective tells the player what values to have and to not take the orc serious. But how can that be, if the orc should be understood from _their own_ perspective?
I think these are complicated matters for several reasons. a) One of the obvious ones are that we have five factions and that each faction has /will have it's own story and mindset, often conflicting with the others. b) We also have some factions that are traditionally perceived as good/evil in the genre, and that perception is likely to be around in our game as well and maybe even should stick around to some degree if we want to make our world understandable as a fantasy world. c) Lastly, a card can either be told/shown from the perspective of it's faction, or from the perspective of the other factions.
What I think would be best to do is to not always let each faction portray itself as only good or only evil, and also to avoid a situation where x is described as good by itself but as evil by y z w etc. I think that would just confuse the players and add some very strange feeling in the game.
Instead, I suggest we let every faction be more or less dynamic: We will show angry and serious and happy elfs as well as giggly orcs (yeah, i know, that seems to be hard to create without it looking comical...) and we would try to find some kind of "balance" within each faction, so that it is not only depicted as being x, but rather, being depicted so that it is obvious that it is x y z etc. Showing a full palette of emotions and moods, instead of just sticking every species and faction into a stereotypical and flat one.
What say you?
/s
Well, this is a pretty big topic as it will direct most of the art. I will dump a copy of this in the forum, because as usual, we are keeping stuff internal here. Not that I care much about everyones input, but because it doesn't really add transparency to the project.
Questions here are (and my short answers in the parenthesis):
Do all our factions perceive themselves as good or at the very least as better in some undefined sense, than the other factions? (I think yes, most do. The only exception I can think of are the Elfs to some degree.)
1. If #1 is true, should we because of that depict every faction as it perceives itself? When looking at Gains while depicted on Gaian cards, they look "good". While looking at RB on RB cards they look "good"?
2. How should a member of faction x be depicted when it is depicted on a card that belongs to faction y? Since every faction believes it's own perspective to be correct, would that mean that whatever is on that factions card should be on par with what their perspective is? If so, this means that Red Banner would look more evil and more brute whenever they're depicted by other factions cards, while being more or less "Normal" or glorified when they depict themselves. (Clearly propagandistic stuff comes to mind here, like how some people portray other groups of people in certain was because it fits their political/normative agendas)
3. When the player holds a Gaian card with an elf on it, are the odds that it depicts a haromic and happy kind looking elf? And when she holds a Shadowguild or a Red Banner creature - do they look "evil" and "semi evil"? (As it is now, I'd answer yes as well: All our undead cards look "evil" and our orc cards fall into only two catgeories: Evil looking barbaric or good / looney tunes.) Point being, now we seem to have a meta perpsective and we currently do take sides in the game: The Gaian are noble and the orcs are goofy/stupid. But that's strange, since the orcs aren't stupid - they have just been treated as they were just that by society, and also been exploited and not seen as equals to man. We have a meta perspective since our view is from "god" (we, as the players have that peperspective as we can build decks any way we want and mix fates etc in the decks). Our meta perspective tells the player what values to have and to not take the orc serious. But how can that be, if the orc should be understood from _their own_ perspective?
I think these are complicated matters for several reasons. a) One of the obvious ones are that we have five factions and that each faction has /will have it's own story and mindset, often conflicting with the others. b) We also have some factions that are traditionally perceived as good/evil in the genre, and that perception is likely to be around in our game as well and maybe even should stick around to some degree if we want to make our world understandable as a fantasy world. c) Lastly, a card can either be told/shown from the perspective of it's faction, or from the perspective of the other factions.
What I think would be best to do is to not always let each faction portray itself as only good or only evil, and also to avoid a situation where x is described as good by itself but as evil by y z w etc. I think that would just confuse the players and add some very strange feeling in the game.
Instead, I suggest we let every faction be more or less dynamic: We will show angry and serious and happy elfs as well as giggly orcs (yeah, i know, that seems to be hard to create without it looking comical...) and we would try to find some kind of "balance" within each faction, so that it is not only depicted as being x, but rather, being depicted so that it is obvious that it is x y z etc. Showing a full palette of emotions and moods, instead of just sticking every species and faction into a stereotypical and flat one.
What say you?
/s