So taking it from the other post on tiers, I think the number of cards should be reduced. 230 is a lot, for all the reasons there explained.

Considering the decks will be running on 50 cards, a deck will have at least 13 different cards. We have 5 factions, 5*13 = 65. Adding half of the minimum to put some variety, will make 20 cards per faction and 100 in total.

We might then add 20 more neutral cards, coming to 120 cards for the core set.

Knowing we have 20 cards per faction, we could decide to have, for each faction:

2 t1 cards

8 t2 cards

10 t3 cards

Further, we should make the cards so that 2 deck types are possible for each faction. I think this will give a great variety of decks and be a good point for a core set.

## First core set

### Re: First core set

Hi Erundil,

I think you're missing one important thing. We're developers. While we're open on a discussion and we chat about development quite a lot, there's a greater fun for us - that's the actual development, pushing the game forward.

The rules are not even close to solid state, as you might have noticed. Even though we want the deck to be around 60 cards, it may be 45, as well as 70. Released cards, if there will ever be a release, should give players some space to construct diverse strategies.

The game should be fun to play, and that's the only real criteria. If 100 cards will suffice, that's excellent, if 1000, that's good also. We won't know before some extensive testing, and it's a long way still to even start this.

I think you're missing one important thing. We're developers. While we're open on a discussion and we chat about development quite a lot, there's a greater fun for us - that's the actual development, pushing the game forward.

The rules are not even close to solid state, as you might have noticed. Even though we want the deck to be around 60 cards, it may be 45, as well as 70. Released cards, if there will ever be a release, should give players some space to construct diverse strategies.

The game should be fun to play, and that's the only real criteria. If 100 cards will suffice, that's excellent, if 1000, that's good also. We won't know before some extensive testing, and it's a long way still to even start this.

I'm the filthy bastard you wish you never met.

### Re: First core set

I am showing some reasoning in my post, explaining why 120 is a much better number than 230 to start with. We think too much, considering the MtG team released the very first set without the 4 copies rules.

Mtg over time gained complexity in deck building, while the rules became actually simpler.

Also, the game might be fun to us, it might not to others, it might attract just few players. Which is another reason to have a small starting card pool.

Of course the deck size might change this numbers drastically, even so 50 is a good number because the deck size will most likely be 40-60 cards, and it seems to me, from the little playtesting I have done that 60 is too much and 40 is too few.

And I will just restate this:

Mtg over time gained complexity in deck building, while the rules became actually simpler.

Also, the game might be fun to us, it might not to others, it might attract just few players. Which is another reason to have a small starting card pool.

Of course the deck size might change this numbers drastically, even so 50 is a good number because the deck size will most likely be 40-60 cards, and it seems to me, from the little playtesting I have done that 60 is too much and 40 is too few.

And I will just restate this:

Further, we should make the cards so that 2 deck types are possible for each faction. I think this will give a great variety of decks and be a good point for a core set.

### Re: First core set

We may start with two factions, 30 cards each. But, depending on rules, we may be forced to make the gameplay longer, decks - bigger and start with about 120 cards per faction just to be sure, that all the important defense strategies are possible.

IMO there's little reason to set boundaries or goals like these without tested, solid ruleset in place, and that's where our steam goes now.

IMO there's little reason to set boundaries or goals like these without tested, solid ruleset in place, and that's where our steam goes now.

I'm the filthy bastard you wish you never met.

### Re: First core set

Yes, that's correct with current ORC.Erundil wrote:Considering the decks will be running on 50 cards, a deck will have at least 13 different cards

What does that number show? (It takes the minimum amount of different cards in a single deck, and it multiplies that with the number of factions in the game....showing us..that is we are five players and all play one single faction the we would have 65 different cards on the table if all were to play every card...). We have 5 factions, 5*13 = 65.

I don't follow what happens here with the math...Adding half of the minimum to put some variety, will make 20 cards per faction and 100 in total.

It hasn't been decided there will be 20 or some neutral cards at all in the core set.We might then add 20 more neutral cards, coming to 120 cards for the core set.

I posted a reply about the tiers in the tier-thread asking for the explanation of the usage of this kind of categorization. Btw, even if such a usage was implemented it seems to be inverted in your table above: We want there to be most of the "cheap" cards around for each faction, not most of the expensive ones. Why? Because the game has a beginning, a middle and an end game and something is supposed to happen during the firs two stages of itKnowing we have 20 cards per faction, we could decide to have, for each faction

2 t1 cards

8 t2 cards

10 t3 cards

I hope more than two builds will be available in the core, especially when you start combining factions in the same deck. That said, there is a limit of course of how many viable decks that can really be built with a limited card pool in a core release.Further, we should make the cards so that 2 deck types are possible for each faction. I think this will give a great variety of decks and be a good point for a core set.