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Bow brother 4G 3/3.
Can not be hurt by the following equipment: Bows, Crossbows...
Code: Select all
Bow brother 4G 3/3.
Can not be hurt by the following equipment: Bows, Crossbows...
I know it may often seem that way, but it doesn't have to be true. Take a game of Chess for example: It's not less tactical or strategical because each unit has only one attack type.TorbenBeta wrote:But if you remove different kinds of damage then we have fewer tactical possibilities.
No, I don't think it should. While it's relatively easy to add melee vs. ranged, it does make it too complex to add in things like multiple defense values, such as modifiers from pierce or fire damage. That should not exist in WTactics.snowdrop wrote:Would different attack types also imply different defense types (one against each attack?)
You are right, complexity is not equal to depth. In fact, I suggest there should be only 2 types of attacks, melee and ranged, no more than that. Too many types just obfuscate the rules and confuse and drive away the players.snowdrop wrote: 1) Having more stats does not necessarily bring more depth to the game. Where and what exactly becomes deeper with 2 attack types instead of 1, or 7 instead of 4?
I'm glad that you are asking that I prove it's adding something. I have no proof now, but I will playtest everything tonight and tell you what I find out. I have a suspicion that you may be right when you say that it may lock up combat.snowdrop wrote: Could somebody guide me through the whole player decision process and pin point where and what you would describe as added depth in it, as a consequence of the added attack types. I think this is perhaps the most interesting part, in proving it's actually adding something, not just claiming it is.
But isn't that normally half the point with using different attack types? Different resistance against different types seems like the most basic concept and one of the primary reasons for why one would ever bother with different attack types.pennomi wrote:No, I don't think it should. While it's relatively easy to add melee vs. ranged, it does make it too complex to add in things like multiple defense values, such as modifiers from pierce or fire damage. That should not exist in WTactics.snowdrop wrote:Would different attack types also imply different defense types (one against each attack?)
Do it like this: Just create about 7-10 unique creatures for each player, with a very mixed spread of meele/ranged damage, using all kinds of numbers. Nevermind naming the cards or giving them gold cost or abilities or anything. Just let each card have 3 values on it: Meele/Ranged/Def.I'm glad that you are asking that I prove it's adding something. I have no proof now, but I will playtest everything tonight and tell you what I find out. I have a suspicion that you may be right when you say that it may lock up combat.
What you're saying here is, I think, a very common fallacy, one which I have made myself guilty of several times around The above quote can all be translated into this:But the idea is this: if there were melee and ranged attacks, it would allow one to consider building a deck heavy on melee, balanced, or heavy on ranged. Then, you could supplement that deck style with abilities and spells granting bonuses to melee or ranged attacks.
This is all a part of the problem, and shows why the game could be locked up and passivity become the normAlso, if the enemy has a strong melee firststrike type creature, you could still get past it by attacking with a strong ranged unit, since if the enemy blocked you with his melee unit, you would choose ranged as the attack type. He would lose his tough unit, or if he decided to not block, he would take serious damage.
I'm not sure there's not a contradiction there...pennomi wrote:First off, I found that using melee and ranged attacks increases the amount of sheer brainpower required to play the game. It gives the players an exponentially greater amount of options in battle. It would be easy to be an indecisive player. /../
On the contrary, I found that it does not slow down the progression of the game.
a) That's un-intuitive. But, I won't use that as an argument as anything can be explained (away) with lore. Even if 99% of the games around would let you announce attack type BEFORE the opposing player should point out a defender.The reason this is is because the attacker gets to choose the attack type after the defender is chosen.
Forks in chess are gold. Yes. But I don't think the analogy holds true here, even if it's very creativePlacing the opponent in the situation of making a decision between losing a good unit and taking a lot of damage is good gameplay, in my opinion. Think of chess, (again). One of the standard tactics is called a fork, where you threaten two valuable pieces at the same time. The opponent must choose between them. This makes for good strategy.
I argue above that, if I understood your suggestion properly, the slowdown will happen one way or the other, not only in theory, but seemingly in "real life" I may be mistaken though, I still haven't tried this out. Personally, I love being wrong, cause I always feel like the sour-puss wherever I show up In the end it doesn't matter what person suggest something in the project. What matters is we help each other out and refine the ideas as far as possible and opt for something that's inline with the design document.Despite it not theoretically slowing down gameplay, I feel that the mental strain would probably slow down the battle and would be adverse to most of the players. Therefore the system should either be revised or scrapped. (Of course, snowdrop was right )
Could you create these test cards in LackeyCCG, and I'd be happy to playtest them with you during saturday or sunday. Even if you didn't have the time releasing them as a PDF or Lackey-patch would make it easy for the rest to try it out and draw some conclusions. =) (Also, did you use a 3-variable system like in Thrones, or just the 2?)This morning I tried out a concept like you mentioned about "a game of thrones". That eliminates the mental stress and the game proceeds normally. By eliminating defense values and just comparing melee or ranged values, things move nicely.